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Risk, ‘psychic numbing’, and wellbeing take centre stage at Lloyd’s Register Foundation International Conference 2019

Global Safety Podcast: Food Safety

Tom Heap asks a panel of experts whether there's a danger the world could run out of food. When rising to the challenge of feeding a growing world population, with over seven and a half billion hungry mouths, how can we do so safely?

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Episode transcript


TOM HEAP [00:00:03] What if I told you that each year 600 million people fall ill because of something they've eaten and although 600 million, 420,000 of them will die? That is just over 1,100 people dying every day simply because of contaminated food. And then there's the 820 million people who go to bed hungry every night whilst a third of all food produced around the world is wasted. Welcome to the Global Safety Podcast, a brand new podcast from Lloyd's Register Foundation, a charity with the aim of protecting the safety of life and property. In today's episode, we discuss the security of our food. We'll hear from the World Health Organization who are on the front line of the problem.


[00:00:48] They are about 200 different food borne diseases. The most common one are universal. Everybody gets them once in a while and they are found all over the world and do not know any borders.


TOM HEAP [00:00:59] And we'll also hear how seaweed could feed the world.


VINCENT DOUMIZEL [00:01:03] With two percent of the ocean dedicated to seaweed production. We feed that 12 billion people in protein with no need of animal or vegetable protein. That's the solution to world hunger.


TOM HEAP [00:01:14] So let me introduce my guest today joining me in the studio to tackle the problem of food safety. First up is Tim Slingsby. Tim is from Lloyd's Register Foundation and is their director of skills and education. We're joined from Rome by Marcus Leape from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, where he's a senior food safety officer. Mondelez International is one of the world's largest food brands. One of those companies you may not have heard of, but is the owner of big brands like Cadbury's, Philadelphia, Ritz, Oreos and Toblerone. The company has an annual revenue of about 26 billion dollars and operates in approximately 160 countries, employing around 83000 people. So we're very lucky to be joined by the head of sustainability, Jonathan Hurrell. And finally, Dr. Morgaine gay. She's a food futurologist and is superbly placed to give us an idea of what we'll be eating in the coming decades. Welcome, everyone. Thank you very much for coming around this table here. So first, a question to all of you. Why in 2020 is food safety such a huge problem? And is it getting better or worse?


TIM SLINGSBY [00:02:22] Will you introduce some stats at the start about the number of people that are dying from food borne diseases, the number of people that are affected all around the world by these food borne diseases? And actually predominantly that disease burden is carried by people in the developing world and by people who are young. There's clearly something wrong with our food system, how we want to describe it. And with a growing world population, I can only see the problem getting worse unless we start with some interventions.


TOM HEAP [00:02:51] Now, Marcus Lipp from the FAO, what is going on here? Why particularly young people getting affected? And is this a different type of problem in the richer world to the poorer world?


MARCUS LIPP [00:03:02] There is certainly a difference. Developed countries can afford more resources to put food safety, have better controls, better governance structures that will allow the food to be kept safer for everybody. That may not necessarily be the case in developing countries. Children are disproportionately affected by food safety problems. That then has, of course, devastating consequences as nutrition cannot be guaranteed and stunting may occur, which has a lifelong impact for those children.


TOM HEAP [00:03:35] And is it your sense, briefly, Marcus, that these issues of food safety are lessening? Are we getting on top of this or is this a mushrooming problem?


MARCUS LIPP [00:03:43] Well, I would say we have seven point three billion people on this planet, give or take. By and large, food safety seems to get better. We understand more risks. We can manage more risks than we could ever before. We have to produce more food than ever before, but we also feed more people than ever before. There is still a huge disparity. There is still too much illness is food borne illnesses, but in absolute numbers, it is absolutely staggering and fascinating to see the progress that has been made in productivity and food processing, in logistics and with the awareness of consumers, because it takes everybody in the food supply chain to pull together to guarantee safe food at the dinner table. And this progress has been made. And so we are able to feed today and a number of people that we have never been able to feed before.


TOM HEAP [00:04:37] As I understand it, John Hall, some of the original reasons why food companies, bigger companies were set up was to do with food safety, was to do with trust in what we're eating, isn't it? So I guess it's absolutely central to a company like yours.


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:04:51] Yeah, that's absolutely right. I agree with everything Marcus said on the topic. You know, we're a snack food company and snack foods are just a particular type of packaged food and packaged food came into existence, as you say, to make food safe. And so you speak to anyone who works for any food company. And the first thing they'll tell you is safety is our number one priority. And it's a nice line to have, but it runs through people like a stick of rock. And so we have processes to manage day to day. We have processes if something has gone wrong or might have gone wrong. Whenever anything happens, that means safety even may be compromised. You find the company swings into action behind the scenes in. Away from top to bottom in a way that is entirely designed to reinforce sweet safety, so I think more people eat safer food than than ever before. We know how to do it.


TOM HEAP [00:05:38] And Morgan Gayo, often when we think of the future, safety isn't always the first thing in people's minds. In fact, there could be some quite radical foods like insects. These people might might be a bit worried about his safety built into future thoughts.


MORGAINE GAYE [00:05:50] I think safety is built into human thought. People are tend to be quite scared about the future. And in my job, when I'm telling people about what's going to come, most people are fearful of that right now. Of course, we're in an unprecedented time and suddenly safety has become almost at the forefront of everybody's thinking. And I think we're starting to see and we have seen over the last few years a lot more food scares in the press.


TOM HEAP [00:06:12] Food scares, Jonathan, from Mondelez.


TOM HEAP [00:06:16] You know something? Once again, that is a huge worry, justified or not, if you see what I mean.


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:06:20] Yeah, well, you see every type of perception out there from people whose only concern is how to get enough food to put on the table to people who are increasingly interested in the food that they're eating and what's behind it. And they look into it in great depth. Many people say whatever the label you put on it, people are actually concerned about themselves. They're concerned about their own well-being. They're concerned about the well-being of the communities they live in, in the wider world. Want to know that food is going to be good for them as well as good for the planet. And so people do look at that and much more detail. They look at both the ingredients that are contained in the food and also the way those ingredients are grown and treated, if you like, along the way.


TOM HEAP [00:06:55] And Tim, I want to move on to sort of quality of food in a moment. Just still, while we're on safety and kind of linking the two as we have to feed more people. Do you think there is going to be a greater safety challenge?


TIM SLINGSBY [00:07:05] There's a number of different challenges as a production challenge. There's a safe operation challenge and safety is inherent to both of those things. And if, as we've said already, the population is growing so much over the next 40 years, the challenges with producing more food for more people bring with them additional safety challenges. I think and I fully concede that absolutely we now feed more people more safely than we ever did before. But that doesn't remove the need to continue to be vigilant as we need to produce more food and markets.


TOM HEAP [00:07:34] Really same question to you. Do you think either there are big food safety challenges in producing that extra food that Tim just referred to is fundamentally the problem has always been the same.


MARCUS LIPP [00:07:44] A huge amount of material moves at a constant pace through the supply chain, and every step is important to keep food safe. That challenge is formidable, has always been formidable, will continue to be formidable.


TOM HEAP [00:07:57] Keeping all that food moving through the supply chain safely is a formidable challenge. Even more so when there are viruses, bacteria and chemical residues that can make us ill. The list of food borne illnesses is long, and diarrhea kills an average of five children every day more than malaria, AIDS and measles combined. Dr Peter Ben Lambrick is head of monitoring of nutrition and food safety events at the World Health Organization. He told me how the food becomes contaminated in the first place.


DR PETER BEN EMBARICK [00:08:32] There are different scenarios. Many of them are found in the raw food, whether it's a food animal. So it could be the milk or it could be the meat or on vegetables harvested from the fields. And those are typically bacteria, viruses and parasites that will be found naturally, either in the soil or in the animals that you will slaughter and consume. And if you don't cook or further process those foods to destroy those bacteria and viruses, they will come infect people directly and therefore in general, consuming raw meat products. Raw seafood is a little bit risky. Some others will have the capability of multiplying in processed environments or in your fridge because they will grow easily at cold temperature. While other bacteria would normally will prevent them from growing because of competition in the food environment, the others would be stopped and the bad ones would suddenly have a good chance to multiply and then become dangerous for human health.


DR PETER BEN EMBARICK [00:09:41] There are about 200 different food borne diseases, so it's a wide range of diseases, but the most common one are salmonella infections, norovirus, listeria, listeriosis, campylobacter, E. coli, and they are found all over the world. Of course, in developing countries, it's much more of a killer than in countries with good health systems where treatment are more easily available and where the Bay Area doesn't necessarily end up killing or suffering from its global estimate. 600 million people getting sick every year of a food borne disease. And we estimate that about close to half a million people die every year of food borne disease. As usual, with many of these diseases, preventing them is not that easy. If it was easy, we would have fixed it already. But with food borne diseases, it's a joint effort that is needed. The food producers have to produce food in a proper way, ensuring that they don't contaminate and put on the market food that is full of bacteria and viruses and parasites and in food processors have also ought to pay, ensuring that when they processed food that this is done properly and us as consumers, we also have a role to play in ensuring that, again, we don't mess it up in the kitchen while we prepare.


DR PETER BEN EMBARICK [00:11:02] We're getting better and better. We have better technologies. We have better tools. We have better supply chains. We have better cold chains, and we have also better educated population and consumers. But we need to do much more. We need to invest much more at national level.


DR PETER BEN EMBARICK [00:11:17] Food safety has not been on the agenda of politicians in many places.


TOM HEAP [00:11:22] That was Dr Peter Benambra from the H0. Whilst food safety may not be high enough up the agenda of governments around the world once the current covid-19 global pandemic is over, perhaps food supplies and their provenance may come under more scrutiny.


TOM HEAP [00:11:40] After all, it's widely believed that the coronavirus jumped from one animal species to another in a food market in the Chinese city of Hama. And there is work being done to study how food is contaminated as it moves along the supply chain. Simon Kelly is from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization. They work in conjunction with the International Atomic Energy Agency. It may sound like a strange collaboration, but using precise techniques, they are able to monitor contaminants in food.


[00:12:11] Simon told me how it works.


SIMON KELLY [00:12:15] We develop analytical methods using nuclear and complementary techniques to monitor veterinary drugs, pesticide residues, natural toxins arising from fungi in food, heavy metal contamination, and the addition of economically motivated adulterants in food such as cheap sugar, sirups in fruit juice and honey, or the addition of cheap vegetable oils to more expensive oils such as olive oil and argan oil. The term pesticides is commonly used to describe plant protection products. They include herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, plant growth, regulators and repellents. If these pesticides are applied correctly following good agricultural practice, they are unlikely to give rise to significant residues in the food we eat. Every pesticide that is used has a maximum residue level, which should not be exceeded.


SIMON KELLY [00:13:14] The amounts of residues found in food must be safe for consumers and must be as low as possible. Most of our member states have national surveillance programs that take food samples to monitor the presence of pesticide residues in a range of foods that are representative of a typical consumers shopping basket. These samples are taken from retail outlets such as supermarkets and the food supply chain that will include domestically grown products and imported products as well. The foods are tested using very sensitive analytical methods that can detect the presence of residues at the parts per million or parts per trillion concentration required to meet the maximum residue limits. The results of these pesticide residues surveys are published each year by national competent authorities that organize the testing. For example, the UK's Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs publishes quarterly reports. Another key tool is the European Union's Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed, or Razif, as is commonly known as Jeff, was set up in 1979 to enable information to be shared quickly between its members and provides a 24/7 service to ensure that urgent notifications are sent and shared between competent authorities. Brasov can lead to products being withdrawn. Supermarket shelves, thanks to RASFF, many food safety risks have been averted before they became harmful to consumers.


SIMON KELLY [00:14:52] In 2008, Rousseff was put to the test in some of the most significant food safety incidents in recent years, mineral oil was discovered in sunflower oil from the Ukraine melamine, a chemical used to make resins and laminates, was found in milk powder and other foods from China. And finally, dioxins, a group of persistent and toxic organic pollutants often produced as combustion byproducts were found in pork from Ireland. In each of these cases, Rousseff helped to coordinate the actions of member states and thus minimize the consequences of the contamination incidents. The melamine case was an excellent example of RASFF linking in with global issues and exchanging information with the United Nations World Health Organization's International Food Safety Authorities Network, or in-person monitoring and surveillance. Using nuclear and complementary analytical techniques plays an incredibly important role in ensuring our food is safe to eat and that any occurrence of chemical contaminants is at acceptable levels that will not pose a short or long term risk to consumers.


TOM HEAP [00:16:03] That was Simon Kelly from the joint FEO IAEA team. But despite all this work being carried out to detect the food that may be contaminated, plus the efforts to prevent the spread of the disease, we're still seeing around 1100 deaths a day as a result of food borne illnesses.


TOM HEAP [00:16:19] This is a bit of a wake up call, isn't it, Marcus? How do we tackle the problem and how do we bring that number down?


MARCUS LIPP [00:16:25] We do see staggering numbers in absolute terms. Still would like to maintain the notion that in relative terms, actually food today is safer. But there are still occasions the countries, their areas and their incidences where things go horribly wrong and consumers pay a severe price.


TOM HEAP [00:16:45] But sorry to interrupt you there. Is it really the case that these are mainly the result of sort of extreme, you know, breakdowns rather than habitual reality of the food system for a lot of people?


MARCUS LIPP [00:16:56] It depends on which country we are looking at, what believe that in many countries with strong governance or strong governments and strong overside strong industries, any incidents is more a breakdown of a normally well functioning supply chain. Now, this is not true for many countries that are in the developing stage that do not have such strong governance systems, that may not have the oversight that is required. And in those countries, it becomes a habitual problem, a whole system approach that is required to transform then the food supplies and the food manufacturing to a level where it's safe for all consumers.


TOM HEAP [00:17:35] So Tim Slingsby, Lloyds Register Foundation is all about promoting safety. What do you think we should be doing? What can the foundation do to promote greater food safety across the globe?


TIM SLINGSBY [00:17:44] So our first bit of due diligence in this space is a publication of our foresight review. It's based on expert opinion. It takes a look to the future and identifies three areas in which the foundation can convene others around this issue. The first area is improved traceability for a safer supply chain. The second area is skills for food safety where they are needed. And Marks, I don't know whether or not you're aware. We have a small program with the FAA already looking at a food safety curriculum in East Africa, and the third area is safe aquaculture, seafood from the ocean. And to us, that isn't about non sustainable approach, but looking further down the food chain towards smaller fish, shellfish and particularly to seaweed, which you're going to hear more about in a minute.


TOM HEAP [00:18:32] But just on the traceability point, I mean, for for big companies like yours, Jotham, you have a lot of expertize in this. You must know where everything comes from.


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:18:41] The food that we eat is often grown a very long way away. Crops are grown right around the world and those crops are then eaten almost anywhere in the world. You take a daily a day to day product like chocolate. The cocoa is grown in very particular places, mostly in West Africa. And so you have to have a supply chain that is capable of delivering and bringing that food, those ingredients, mixing them with other ingredients that come from other places, bring it all together reliably and safely to be then delivered to wherever the market is. And so that's a sophisticated thing to do. You've also, of course, got people right along that supply chain, by the way. So on a bar of dairy milk, now you'll find a logo called Coca Leaf, and that's our investment in our supply chain. The cocoa is grown in rural communities in West Africa, which often typically very impoverished and lack basic communities. And the people there are eating food and they're not buying food from the supermarket like we are here, that they're eating food, which is locally produced. And that's subject to all the food safety risks that you describe. So if as part of that supply chain development program, the community also advocates to have and gets the resources to have a supply of safe drinking water brought to the community, then that's something that could well have food safety benefit. It's for the people that are actually producing the cocoa that then is made into our chocolate as well.


TOM HEAP [00:19:54] And is that something that a company like yours tries to promote?


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:19:56] Yes, very much so, because if you're going to produce safer, better, more resilient food systems, they need to be coming from communities that have the capacity also to be well managed and provide good lives for people.


TOM HEAP [00:20:08] I want to move along a bit to the quantity of food as well as the quality our population is growing and will have, it's reckoned probably more than nine billion mouths to feed by 2050 and always has to be done at a time of climate change as another big threat. So, Dr. Morgaine, how do you think our food supplies will be affected by this double whammy of changing climate and growing population?


MORGAINE GAYE [00:20:32] Well, we've been in that trajectory for a while, but as a futurologist, I don't think that the data's always right. And just because it's exponential growth doesn't mean to say that's always going to be the case. So we don't actually know that. One of the things that the World Health Organization was dealing with in the 1950s was not having enough food. But currently what we're looking at in terms of what's killing people from food in the West, it's often the food itself from obesity. So, you know, we're dealing with all kinds of other things like like just actually eating too much food and how much impact that is having on the health system. So as we go forward, it's not just the growing population, it's the amount they consume. We've created a lot of problems by industrial producing food.


TOM HEAP [00:21:14] Right. We've teased people enough about this seaweed project to give us a little bit of introduction to it.


TIM SLINGSBY [00:21:19] Tim, before we hear from the man who's really the expert, we have, we've recognized that there's growing increasing international evidence for seaweed as a safe and sustainable food source, depending on which report you look at. It's quite obvious that the seaweed market is growing, particularly outside of Asia, which has been the predominant seaweed market for many, many years. So between 2005 and 2015, the global seaweed market effectively doubled. It's now worth about six billion dollars per annum. There just seems to be this huge opportunity for development and growth of this market.


TOM HEAP [00:21:55] Well, earlier today I spoke to Vincent Doumizel from Lloyd's Register Foundation.


[00:22:00] He revealed some incredible goings on beneath the waves in the North Sea that could hold the key to helping fix world hunger.


VINCENT DOUMIZEL [00:22:08] In the next 50 years or so, we will have to produce as much food as we ever produce over the last 10000 years. So it's going to be quite a challenge. There's no way lamb production can absorb all that demand for food. So we have to find innovative ways to get more food from the ocean. The seaweed story has not been fully told. We all eat seaweed five times a day at the moment in average ice cream and any yogurt. There's a lot of texturizing and jelling agent that comes from seaweed. There's a lot of medicines that will be made out of seaweed. We need to make seaweed out of the blue economy because seaweed sequester or a lot of carbon with two percent of the ocean dedicated to seaweed production, we feed that 12 billion people in protein with no need of animal or vegetable protein. That's a solution to world hunger. If we reach nine percent of the ocean for seaweed production, then we will absorb more carbon than the global emissions are in the world today. We will start to cool down the atmosphere. Basically, when we think about planting trees to offset our carbon emission, that we will grow from 20 to 30 centimeters a year while some kelp at some point of the year they can grow up to one meters a day. So that's quite massive in terms of carbon sequestration.


VINCENT DOUMIZEL [00:23:29] We started working on a project with the Wageningen University in Netherlands in order to develop seaweed production through echolocation with renewable offshore wind farms in the North Sea. First you mutualize the cost. Secondly, you have some preserved area where they have no ship passing by. You have no disturbance, you have nothing. Once you have seaweed, then you can grow shellfish, you can go bivalves, you can go small fish and you can develop what we call integrated multi taufiq aquaculture, which will be a very a very efficient and almost autonomous system offshore, where you have energy production, food production, food production and so forth and so on. The main concern they have is in developing that type of seaweed production was the lack of risk assessment and lack of understanding of the risk. So we needed to understand better what are the potential diseases, what are the safety aspects in order to make a global seaweed market, because at the moment you have different regulation and tolerance for values, heavy metals, arsenic, iodine all around the world. It's a very fragmented and disconnected ecosystem. There's no them in the food system.


VINCENT DOUMIZEL [00:24:39] It's all about we each time we eat and we drink, we we shape the world we want.


VINCENT DOUMIZEL [00:24:43] And four times a day, we are all environmental activist. Each time we decide to eat, we. We vote for the world of tomorrow.


TOM HEAP [00:24:55] The potential of projects like that sound amazing, but it strikes me when it comes to food, when it comes to our diets, we are especially conservative. Isn't that the case for a food company with very loathe to change what we eat?


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:25:10] I would say never say never, actually. You'd be surprised how consumers, people across the world are changing in terms of their preferences, not just are they becoming more particular about what they eat and wanting to know more about how it's produced. But they're certainly increasingly open to new forms of food and new new ingredients in unfamiliar places, if you like.


TOM HEAP [00:25:34] And so seaweed, can you make a like a few products out of it? Make a few quid out of it?


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:25:38] I'm sure you can. We don't right now, but never say never.


TOM HEAP [00:25:42] You've got a novel product. It's growing in the North Sea, not necessarily the cleanest of bodies of water. How can you be sure that this products come from are going to be safe?


TIM SLINGSBY [00:25:53] It's a really good question, and that's why we have to identify the protocols that will determine whether or not the product is safe. So we've started this process already. We've got some early results of that that's now turned into a multi-million pound EU funded project. There's actually testing some of those results in five different sites.


TOM HEAP [00:26:11] And what about the scaling up of this? I mean, can you really see this from what you know, so far as, you know, a bulk commodity product for the future of food?


TIM SLINGSBY [00:26:20] Absolutely. It's already a bulk commodity product in Asia. It's the rest of the world that's catching up. And, of course, seaweed is used in a lot of products already. Turning it into a food product will require a lot of additional effort. And it may also require a lot of additional offshore infrastructure, which would require huge amounts of investment, not just from those people who are interested in seaweed as a food product, but those who might be interested in seaweed as a way of sinking carbon, as a way of producing more animal feed, as a way of increasing biodiversity in the oceans as all sorts of benefits to it. But we have to start with safety to convene people around the issue.


TOM HEAP [00:27:02] Moving aside from just seaweed, when you're looking at future foods, are there some other big players?


MORGAINE GAYE [00:27:08] We should be looking at other. Air is the ingredient of the future. So, of course, it's free. We can also now make a protein that is just made from air. So we're starting to see what the potential of that is. Lots of you have to give me a little bit more of that. So so it's it's like a texture. And one of the things that air is, of course, is texture. One of the other things that makes such a great thing for the future is that it makes us feel like we're having more than we actually are. So as we see perhaps a decline in what's available to us in terms of raw commodities or we want to save on that, we put er into something and we can puff it with air. We can put air and make the texture interesting, but and the mouthfeel very different. But we're using less product.


TOM HEAP [00:27:51] I'm going to ask what people might be expecting you to or to say rather, which is insects. I mean just why is there a big food future that, you know, that guaranteeing food security for our future nine billion?


MORGAINE GAYE [00:28:01] Well, one of the biggest users right now for insects, of course, is animal feed. So that's been really helpful in terms of using less crops for animal feed and using insects, which are much more readily available and easier to produce insects. There's of course, there's so many different varieties, but it's still quite a blocker in Western countries because of our socialization around what we think about the creepiness and the ick factor of insects. There are possibilities for those in the future. I think there's lots of other interesting things happening in the plant based space and lots of really clever technical innovation coming up with second use of food waste products that are made from foods being turned into materials, building materials, rotten milk being used into it, turned into fabric. And there's loads of examples of that. So I think the use of food going forward is really interesting.


TOM HEAP [00:28:52] Marcus, are you kind of optimistic or pessimistic about the safety and the future of our food?


MARCUS LIPP [00:28:59] And so that from a more personal perspective, I'm excited about these innovations. I'm excited about the level of experimentation because the world needs it.


TOM HEAP [00:29:07] Tim, just remind us, what are your kind of three things that you want us to take home when it comes to food safety in particular?


TIM SLINGSBY [00:29:12] The three areas that we're focusing on are skills for food safety, where they are needed most better traceability for an improved and more safe food supply chain. And the third area is safe aquaculture, safe food from the ocean. And our particular focus in that area is seaweed. We recognize that we're a relatively modest foundation of the scale of this problem. Safe and sustainable food for everybody by 2040, say, is bigger than this modest little foundation can ever achieve on its own. But I think we've got the ability to convene people around these issues and we already are doing. We've got loads of interest from organizations all around the world, at UN level and at national government level and at large multinational industry level to actually help us ensure that there can be safe and. And food for all in the very near future.


TOM HEAP [00:29:57] OK, well, a quick final question. I'm going to ask you your favorite food and why do you think it'll be around in 50 years time? And just to give you a little bit of thinking space, I'm going to go pork scratchings. And yes, as long as the pigs are happy and they've eaten a sustainable diet, they I've given you time to think Morgaine favorite food will be around 50 years.


MORGAINE GAYE [00:30:16] Sounds like it's a complete plant, but I love seaweed. Actually, I really I love seaweed. It's my favorite food. And so I actually like it prepared. I like it every single way it comes. And I like all of the different iterations and I've not had a bad one. So for me, seaweed and I think it will definitely be here in 50 years time. Jonathan?


JONATHAN HORRELL [00:30:35] Well, you know, I'm going to say this chocolate, obviously. And yes, I think it will be around in 50 years time, though. I think a lot of hard work is going to need to be done to make sure that it is. I think also quite possibly people may individual as individuals be eating a bit less chocolate and slightly better chocolate, if you like.


TIM SLINGSBY [00:30:52] Well, this might not work for anything that goes out globally. But, you know, as a Yorkshireman, you can't go wrong with a good Yorkshire pudding. And it will be my personal mission to make sure that at least for me in my family, they will be around in the next 50 years time. I just have to find a way of eating them with seaweed.


TOM HEAP [00:31:07] Well, there we go. We've got a pretty good forecast then. What about the fifth course, Marcus? What about yourself?


MARCUS LIPP [00:31:12] Well, for personal choice, I would opt for seafood in general. I do believe it will be around, although the affordability may vary then in the future to come.


TOM HEAP [00:31:23] Well, let's reconvene in 2050 and have that dinner. I think we should all settle down for that feast, but for the moment. Thank you very much indeed. To Marcus Labor, to Tim Slingsby, Jonathan Hurrell and to Dr Morgaine Gaye.


TOM HEAP [00:31:38] So thank you very much to those guests in this inaugural episode of the Global Safety Podcast. In the next episode, we'll be looking at cyber security and also looking at ways to stop the hackers and Jammer's from winning and how to safeguard a world where every aspect of our lives is increasingly online.


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